How Porn Rewires Intimacy in Marriage

Research across Neuroscience, Psychology, and Relationship Science suggests that pornography can subtly but significantly reshape how partners experience intimacy in a marriage. Frequent consumption conditions the brain’s reward system toward novelty, intensity, and unrealistic sexual scripts, which can dampen satisfaction with a real-life partner over time. This often shows up as reduced desire, increased comparison, or difficulty with emotional attunement during sex. At the relational level, secrecy around porn use can erode trust, while mismatched expectations about sex can create cycles of rejection, shame, and resentment. Over time, couples may find themselves less connected—not just physically, but emotionally—unless they intentionally rebuild transparency, communication, and a shared vision of intimacy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay. Hi, this is Peter Anderson and Jessica Pacinas. Hi. We are doing drinks or strinks. It's been a long, long time. It's been a while, but we're back. We have to keep going here. So yeah, today we're going to be talking about the effects of porn on a marriage.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Okay. So maybe we should just go ahead and talk about, you know, porn at first, what it means, what's the definition, and then obviously, you know, and then also why it can be harmful for a marriage. So I just describe porn as any kind of type of explicit image that you're getting aroused from, right? Uh so it could, it doesn't have to be necessarily on the internet. People often forget this. Uh, but pornography was a pretty uh substantial part of our culture before the internet. Uh, and it hurt, you know, it really had an effect on marriages way back then. So I would that's the way I would define it. Um, is there anything that you would define? Any uh, you know, yeah. I don't know if you wanted to add to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Any no, I think that definition is spot on because it's not just over the internet, it definitely can be something, a picture, it could be something written, it could be anything that's sexually suggestive or not even sexually. I even hesitate to say that because what we find or need it, whatever promotes that arousal response, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Um, yeah, no, I'm I and then I guess the other question would be uh what if we, you know, how how why is it I not just how not just how to define it, but there are probably different couples that define it differently, but maybe we could hold up on that. But maybe we could just immediately jump into why is it why can't it be harmful for a relationship and is and is it the same as cheating, for example?

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Oh, that's a big one. That is a big problem.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, it it definitely is. I mean, I've seen marriages literally fall apart over it, and I've also seen marriages where one partner was quote fine with it as long as it didn't involve cheating, other partners that say absolutely not, that is cheating. So there tends to be a relative curve on the clients I deal with, um, and have.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

I don't know if you wanted to, you know, I guess I think it really is unique, couple to couple. And and I do see where there are sometimes feelings of betrayal where people throw it into the same category as cheating. I also see on an opposite end of the spectrum where couples sometimes will actually use it together. So in some instances, it doesn't have the same impact. And where I kind of draw that differentiation is when there isn't explicit communication or a shared set of expectations where people are on the same page about how it's being used, if it's being used in the relationship. So when people have one person who thinks, oh, it's okay, and I'm just gonna do it, but the other person has a very different relationship to pornography, isn't it doesn't feel comfortable with it, and they're not talking to each other about that, or they're not honoring those needs, then that's where I think it crosses more into betrayal cheating for people. Um, because people just aren't on the same page and those boundaries get so easily violated.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you. And I mean, I wonder if also it's like a lot of couples just don't even talk about that. Have you noticed? I I noticed that sometimes a couple won't even necessarily bring it up when they're first dating. And so a lot of these things are often just kind of like uh under wraps, and then all of a sudden they may have problems in their marriage. So, what have you noticed like as far as when it starts becoming a problem? Is it the beginning, in the middle? Is it only when they're having intimacy problems? I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

I think a little bit, so yes, intimacy problems definitely sometimes that can spark the conversation, but I would I say I would say before, you know. I think it's later in there into the relationship, but it's oftentimes when the subject comes up, it's like we're addressing it. Oftentimes it can feel like for the first time, like it's a very different conversation. It might have come up once or twice before, but they haven't, it's something where they might touch on it and then they go back away from it, and it's not something they're finding um a resolution around. So it's this wide open topic, but there's not enough space. So I do see it kind of creeping up later in the relationship, especially as those behaviors have been continuing to a point where it just doesn't feel comfortable anymore. What do you think? What do you see when you're working with couples?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, yeah, it definitely seems to be around intimacy. Um, again, yeah, I like to, and also the way they're defining it. I think I think the couples that have the hardest time, I would say, are the couples that are very um yeah, quick to get uh, I guess I should say it it leads to there's a lot of there's a there's a strong reactivity. And yeah, you know, if there's a lack of trust in the relationship already, it's almost like it's one more thing, one more icing on the cake that could cause it to just fall apart. I think um, you know, but however, there are couples where it's a surprise and um for them and they don't really know what to do. Uh, it matters actually how often it it's um, I guess I should say how often it's it's being done in a marriage, too. If you're talking about compulsive real problems where somebody is looking at it every single day for almost an hour, that's gonna be very different from somebody that's gonna be like look maybe looked at it once every three months or something. Um, and so I know, you know, with the it's uh there's also a lot of misunderstanding. I should not misunderstanding, but it can be seen as almost an addiction, although there's no DSM for addiction. However, the World Health Organization does have compulsive sexual, I think it's compulsive sexual behavior disorder. They have it more, they have it more as an impulse control disorder. And um, you know, if that's the case, then you may be looking at it where uh that person is just conditioned to seek it almost all the time. So I think it really matters on yeah, but it definitely takes some. Well, let's talk about like the effects on marriage. What what what are some of the stuff that you've seen on on marriage, would you say?

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yeah, yeah. I I mean I think trust is a big one. Um just where again, people feel like a line has been crossed, so they have very different sets or ideas about boundaries and or expectations. Um so there's a lot of pain there that has to get processed. But then also for the person who is maybe participating, engaging in pornography. Um, I also see a lot of shame. And that can be challenging because I think sometimes the person who's not using pornography or whatever the material is can sometimes that hurt can come out really critically.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Um and that can do a like Gottman's four horsemen, it does a lot of could do a lot of damage, right? And that it really exacerbates that shame. And for the person with the shame, it can kind of also then feed that cycle where I'm not gonna talk about it because I don't feel good about it. Um I'm going in anticipating it's gonna be a negative interaction, and so it's just like that vacuum that get like that negative vacuum that gets created. Um, but I also think, you know, one, I don't think people talk enough about sex in their relationship, even about pornography and whatnot. But two, I think it can also create some barriers to maybe connecting physically. Now, I think there again, there's different things out there, but I think if it's used in a certain way or if it's used a lot, what can happen is how that impacts arousal too, right? The sexual maps we have and and how we're mapping that with our partners, and it's gonna be different than what you might be exposed to through pornography. And so it may also result in challenges in that area as well with arousal.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, yeah. I think one of the things, like I think we're gonna start seeing it more and more and more because I'm starting to, you know, I'm starting to see just, you know, through a lot of both my readings and my own research on this, that people are starting to get addicted at a much younger age than ever before because of the implementation of the smartphone. I mean, I, you know, it is pretty normal now for young men to communicate, oh yeah, I've been addicted to porn since I was 11, since I was 12. Wow, which is very, very different from my parents' generation or my generation, you know, where somebody wouldn't necessarily have that same compulsive, you know, um behavior uh up until like in the 20s or 30s, I suppose, you know, but where things were more censored. But um yeah, I know they did I the the research that I've done on it, because I mean this is it's a it's a real passion of mine, especially for young men who I I love seeing and and women, I mean it's not just men, but I would say the majority are young men, uh, you know, that that you're starting to see it affect even their ability to have an erection. Um, like, you know, so they're not even able to be intimate with their wives. And you're talking about like, you know, very young men. Uh, but yeah, yeah, I I I like what you said earlier about, or yeah, I think it's a very good point that that secrecy, the lying, the shame cycle, hiding, lying, shame, hiding, lying, shame. That's that's just, and then there's this rupture of trusts, and then it's which leads to more hiding, lying, shame, rupture trust. So, you know, I it it's uh yeah, there's there's it's almost like it's it's what what I've noticed with a lot of my couples, they're mad that they don't they're mad that they know, but at the same time, he let's just say he he doesn't necessarily want to tell her because if he did tell her, he's lost her trust. So he's stuck. It's like if I did communicate this to her, she's devastated, so I might as well hide. And then she would say, Well, why did you hide? And then he would say, Well, because I knew it would devastate you, which it which it does. So it's how do you uh that's the tension I often see, like damned if you do, damned if you don't. I see this also, I also see this with a lot of like you know, ministries, right? So if he's struggling with pornography, if you were to confess this to a priest or confess this to a like a father, then he may be immediately asked to leave his ministry. So what does he do? He just sits with it. So there's this there's this tension, I think, that's very unhealthy in the sense like I either say it and then I ruin my marriage, or I don't say it and then I hide. What do you what do you do with that? Like that's that's uh hard. Yeah, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

unknown 12:01

You know, mentality.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Yeah, I and and also to that point too. I imagine on the if if let's in this situation someone on the other end is not comfortable with it, I think too, other thing, and I don't know if you hear this too, but there's a lot that comes up with self-worth as well. Like, how do I feel in my body when I'm with you intimately? If like sometimes there's comparisons between what someone might be engaging with when it comes to pornography and then how I feel as your partner, because I'm maybe judging myself based on what you're viewing. Um, so that's also come up as a part. Have you seen that too?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yeah, yeah, like in some. Yeah, I have. Yeah, where have you seen it kind of affect it? Yeah, I mean, keep going. Yeah, I was just listening.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Oh, no, no, no, no worries. But so I've seen that, but then also to your to your question, I think that's where I try to build in this sense of transparency, like okay, you know, we're addressing it, so let's keep it in in the open here. Now, granted, if it does come up, let's set reasonable. Also, I I think it's unreasonable in some ways. I mean, case by case, but to say I'm just gonna stop. If something I view it as you have a relationship to something, so if you've been using pornography said age 11, that's a long time for something to be in your life, it has a function. Yeah, and I think just to say, okay, closing the laptop or closing whatever I'm using, it's not realistic. Like, I think sometimes there needs to be like, okay, let's create some goals, let's create some ways around how we can work toward our shared whatever that shared goal is for both of you. And let's have open space to talk and check in about that. So if it's coming up, we're expecting it's the expectation is it might, right? The expectation is it's not going to, but then we're built, I really try to infuse curiosity, like ask questions. Like, I'm gonna ask questions about the feelings it's coming up for you, and I'm gonna offer empathy and try to tackle the shame that might be coming up for me and just acknowledge that. But then for the other person, I'm not gonna criticize you for that use. I'm gonna get curious and ask about maybe what triggered the use, what came up for you, what was going on at the time, right? So we're kind of also bringing back some humanity into the discussion. Um, that's been one way of trying to challenge the cycle a little bit with people.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

What do you do when that so you help the cup, you help her try to under maybe um typically try to be a little bit more patient. Yeah. I like that. I like that a lot. No, I I'm the same, yeah. I I kind of do the same thing. I mean, what what because if she just lays right into him and um he's not gonna ever tell her again, and I want her to be able to tell her again. But if she shows grace, understanding, thank you for telling me, and hurt, that's a great dialectic to have in a marriage. I think I because because shame shame is it really is the killer in all this. Guilt is okay. I always like to say this to people. Guilt is a guilt is a wonderful emotion. If you don't have guilt, you're a psychopath, right? So, you know, I mean, yeah. Uh shame is different because shame is saying to you that you are this thing. And so I always tell couples, like if he says to her, look, I've got I've got a problem and I I need help with this. The last thing you want to do is just pile on shame with him. You want to say, Okay, gosh, thank you for telling me. I I'm so thankful you told me. Now that might take some coaching a little bit, yeah. Because for both of them, really, I I usually will try to meet with her privately and like allow her to grieve and not critique it at all, just like, yeah, I want to contain this for you. And then I'll meet with him privately and allow him for her to be upset. And then usually, okay, let's have let's come back together and then try to reach them more in that kind of like let's let's get on a plan here. Um, you know, and uh get some help, yeah, right away. Because longitudinal studies do say it like it could lead to divorce, it this could be a very big, you know, it could lead to porn is often a stepping stone. Uh I know for most people that I've that I've seen that have had it an affair, um, it wasn't just like zero to 90. It was there was especially for I could speak, I could speak for men. Maybe you get to help me with women. Most men I have met where there's been an affair, porn was one of the very first steps. It wasn't just like everything's great, he's not watching porn, he's doing really well, and all of a sudden there's an affair. Um, I don't think I've I don't think I've ever seen that, honestly. It's it's usually kind of a quote that's in his life. And I I don't know if you found that women are a little different with that because I think with I mean, women in porn's a little, it's um the research is ambiguous a little bit, but I yeah, yeah, that's a little different.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Well, and it's funny because I don't want to say that women don't, um not at all. I think I've had more experience where in the couples I've worked with, where maybe men are the ones who are more engaging with pornography. Um I think for for women's use of porn, I I mean I I think that it function it that's the key, is I think looking at where that it functions for a reason for each person, if it meant men or or women where I'm having some need met through that interaction, through that engagement. And I think sometimes it's building an awareness of for myself, not even necessarily for my partner, but just breaking it down. What am I getting from this experience? What is it giving me? Why is this the outlet I'm turning toward for that? And again, I think sometimes I've seen couples use it in a productive way, not all the time, but where they're mixing something up, they're spicing it up a little bit, and that is different because they're on the same page, they're both engaging each other, so it's not just the the material and that content apart from the the partner, but so that's different. But I do think that um if you can get curious and understand how this thing functions in your life, and then ask, okay, like if it's if anytime I'm feeling stressed out and I need a release and I'm going to this thing as one option, then are there other things I can be doing where it's not shutting out my relationship? Is that a conversation we could be having between each other before I turn to that? Like there might be things to do. Um, I think that's the big part of it. Is I and you mentioned grief earlier, and that really resonated with me because it's like a I think the partner on the other end just feels so shut out, you know? Like, like you are you're getting this pleasure, you're finding this connection, but it's apart from me. It's not willing. And it's different than if you're going to a ball game or you know, hanging out with your friends. It's like you're doing something really intimate with your body that's shared between us, let's say in a more monogamous relationship, and the and and and it's violating that, like the way we agree to share in things and how we agree to I like that. Yeah, like that's yeah. What do you what do you think? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people don't even realize like it's a problem. And I like what you said earlier. It was like, you know, because it's it's it's really reorganizing. I mean, it's reorganizing your dopamine, I I guess, like attention. Your, you know, your attention, uh uh, or I should say attachment, really, you know, from one person toward this, honestly, this reward system that offers absolutely no intimacy. There's no, it doesn't require any type of vulnerability. It doesn't require repair, it's a quick fix. It's uh to get your needs met rather than going to your partner. And um, I think that's what probably hurts the most, you know. It I would say. Uh huh. You would rather, yeah, you would rather go there than share with me. Um that's why it feels like a betrayal often for a lot of people. It's um I think it's the surprise, you know. It's also just the surprise, the secret. Uh what are you doing more? How are you doing this in a way, or why are you doing this and why are you doing it privately? And what it does, I think it's it's hard to withhold from, I think for a lot of a lot of couples or a lot of partners, that that emotion of of what you would call disgust, which is kind of what you want to keep them away from, because then that hijacks curiosity. And then there isn't, there is no question. It's more like you're you're you're not a good person, and I don't want to come to you anymore because you're doing this thing, which is what you want to try to redirect it from, which then causes him to hide and causes him to just, you know, uh be a secret and then I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then he goes to the crocodile tears and nothing ever gets changed over time. So I guess it's yeah. Um I don't know if I answered that question or I'm just kind of processing with you.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

So No, and and also I'm curious to know your thoughts on this because I all when you were talking about like historically at the beginning about like what it's looked like, I think that's another thing that's making it really hard is how other people with AI or um even just now the mediums to engage pornography and how it's something where like it's not just like okay, I'm going to the X-rated section of Blockbuster or wherever you get movies, it's more of like, oh, there's this online thing, so it's more accessible, but then two, you can actually engage with people, you know, and so I think when it comes to cheating, too, it's what level of interaction are is it something that's like been pre-recorded, or is it where I'm actually engaging someone else?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Oh, right. Yeah, that's where it gets like a little bit deeper and deeper.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Yeah, I just feel like over time it's just become so vast in what it can look like. And I think too, that can create a lot of I don't know if anxiety is the right word, or insecurity or concern when it comes to when we like when someone says I'm watching porn. Well, what does that mean? Because there for some people that could that answer could vary in so many ways because of all the different types of content there are. And I think that also has a big role in household and response to it. What have you found that at all?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it also matters how how um intense the actual compulsive behavior is. I mean, I've you know, I mean, I've met people, I've met people that said, you know, gosh, I wish it was only pornography. Um, his addiction is so severe. Uh, you know, just saying that's how that's how bad it got. It got to the point where they're meeting up and going places and, you know, uh doing, you know, really kind of very uh, you know, questionable things behind closed doors. But it all seemed to kind of go back to that whole area where did it where did it all start? Um and then yeah, I think I think it's uh I I I like to just I like to just like I like where you're going because I think it's very important that we just talk about it. We we have to stop treating it like a taboo because it is a very real thing. It and couples, uh a majority of men, I would say a vast majority of men have have engaged in it in some capacity. 100%, you know. Uh, you know, I I don't want to say 100% of men, but I'm saying a vast majority have, uh, you know, because of how accessible it is. And I would also say that the majority of the men also say that we'll never talk about it. So that's what's kind of interesting. Those both of those things I would say are are true. Um, I don't have tons of research to back it up, but that's just my gut. Well, like, you know, um that because of how accessible it is, and you know, and and and nobody wants to say anything. Everybody immediately thinks, um, okay, I'm a pervert, I can't, I can't confess this, I can't report this. Uh I and so I just I just which which actually makes the attraction to it even that much more. That's what's actually interesting, because they continue to stay in that cycle. When you put a light on a lot of this stuff and you kind of expose it, the attraction actually goes away. There's a really good book that I read once called um uh it was on this very thing, and he was meeting with a guy that struggled with meeting with um prostitutes, right? And so that was his client. And he said, Okay, well, I'm gonna come to you. I'm gonna I'm gonna come with you and we're gonna go pick up who you pick up. He was like, Wait, what? He was like, Yeah, yeah, let's go down, let's uh let's see who you're gonna pick up. And he was like in the taxi with this client. No, yeah, yeah. And he was like, Is that is that the girl? Is that who you're attracted to? And he was like, Uh, yeah. I was like, Well, pick her up, let's do it, let's talk to her. And so we picked her up, and the client obviously was just like really embarrassed, but he was like just talking to her, he was like, What's your name? Oh, Susie, cool. What what have you, you know, what got you in this business? He was humanizing her, and as he was humanizing her as client, guess what happened after that? He's he dropped her off. He's like, I don't want to do anything, and then he talked about it. And and guess what happened to his attraction? It went away. The minute you make something human, which is so interesting, your attraction goes away. Um, you know, in that way, so you're like you're killing the intensity, uh, by anyway. So you're kind of opening it all up. So I want to get rid of like the taboo because you you need to talk about this stuff. You have to like sit with your partner, sit with your husband, sit with your spouse, and be like, all right, well, talk to me. Why are you doing this? What's stressing you out? Because it's hurting me, but I need you to talk to me about it. Um, right, start from there, you know. So that's like that's all we can, you know. I think that's the best way to deal with it, really.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I mean, anyway, I love that though, because you're so right, it it's something that is taboo and has become tapo, and we don't talk enough about these things, and I think it's when things start getting hidden that's when the damage gets done.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Um yeah, yeah. Well, I anyway, I think that's uh I think that's all we have for today because we have to keep it short because I have a client in five minutes. I don't think you have a client in five minutes, but but hey, I like the fact that we just kind of do 30 minutes podcasts, and if we if we could do more of these, that would actually be really great. It's a lot better than just like ignoring it for months and months and then doing it. So yeah, but um, yeah, yeah. But thanks everybody for listening. Uh, if you guys have any comments or concerns, we would love to hear from y'all. And um, yeah, thanks again for listening to Drinks or Shrinks. This is Peter and Jessica. We're saying goodbye. Thanks, y'all. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Okay, bye.